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Topic: Taxing the rich and/or entitlements


Topic Posted by: Snappy
Date Posted: Thu Jan 12 14:50:31 2012
Additional Comments: When I listen to the news generally, I hear Dems only talking about taxing the rich, but have never heard how much money that would collect and Reps only talking about entitlements.  To me a combination of increasing revenue and reducing costs (entitlements) is what it is going to take to get our country out of the debt we are in.  Trust me, I am 57, and pay for my own health insurance out of my own pocket ($676 a month, I make $24,000 annual & hubbie is on Social Security), so entitlements of medicare and social security are of keen interest to me.  To save any assumptions I am an independent, left Rep when religious right took over, voted for Obama, but was leaning toward McCain til he got Palen- she was way too inexperienced and conversative for me.  I consider myself middle of the road, and I don't hate anyone D or R, I know this is Rep hater board, but I am interested in people opinions.  



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Posted by: Snappy
Date posted: Fri Jan 13 13:04:52 2012
Message:

Yikes -  I did not say entitlements properly, and sorry not stating clearly what I meant.   I understand that entitlements are welfare,  and I am quite aware that I have been paying for medicare and social security.  That said I do not believe the money my husband (who has serious health issues) has contributed in his lifetime is anywhere near the another of money to cover his medical bills.  The additional money comes from the "social security pool" but I have read that 30 years ago 16 people contributed to every one person in social security and now that figure is 3 people per everyone one on SS.  The additional money is going to have to come from somewhere, as will the money to pay for health and providing health care for illegal aliens which I assume we will do.   I just don't think taxing the rich alone will garner the money needed to get us out of debt and pay for health, but I have no idea because I have never heard any kind of figure given.  When you look at countries where they have paid for health care, college, etc ( Scandenavia for instance) the taxes are around 50% for everyone, I think.  All of this stuff has to get paid for and I just wonder if taxing the rich will take care of everything.  Also, with all of the outrage at corporate greed, are people devested their IRA's, stocks, or mutual funds of those corporate raiders.  I have only CD's so I again I am not that knowledgable about stocks.  

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  • You're husband may not have 'contributed enough' to 'justify his benefits, but a dear cousin and a close friend both passed away this year at the age of 61. They'll NEVER see one penny of the $ they've contibuted, so the way I see it, it 'evens' out. I know many families who barely earn enough to put food on the table and a roof over their heads during their working years. They'd NEVER have been able to save enough for a 'retirement income' without SS, or earn enough in retirement to pay the staggering health insurance premiums. The way I see it, we're a 'society' which means we work collectively to help each other out. SS and Medicare help society in general but keeping the elderly alive and well during the years they are unable to work anymore. Elaine

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    Posted by: Elaine
    Date posted: Thu Jan 12 21:55:10 2012
    Message:

    You can knock off the kerap about 'entitlements' like it's some form of welfare. Hubby and I have contributed to SS and Medicare our entire lives...it's NOT welfare, it's our due.

    Every other civilized country in this world takes care of their elderly and more importantly helps it's citizens with medical care, especially the elderly.

    JOb creators my a##. When they create the jobs they can have their so called tax cuts. The Repubs. want to increase taxes on the middle class and poor...Cain and his 999...raises taxes on those least able to pay. Romeny wants to raise taxes on the middle class.

    We need to cut being the so called 'policeman' of the world and get the HE!! out of Afganistan. We have absolutely NO business there. We can save billions by cutting back on defense spending but that will NEVER happen as defense contractors are huge contributors to our politians. Money for the huge defense contractors, nothing for our most vunerable citizens...bu!!sh!t.

     

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  • Frankly, I don't have knock of saying anything, I have just a much right to an opinion as you do. If you think SS is not in serious danger of being subsidized by tax payer money outside what we contribute to Med/SS, which to me would be an entitlement, then you and I must disagree. Snappy

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    Posted by: UncleJJJ
    Date posted: Thu Jan 12 21:05:46 2012
    Message:

    I am so sick of hearing people refer to Social Security as an entitlement. I have been paying for it my whole life.

    Damn right I am entitled to it ! !

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  • I feel that way too, but what are we going to do if SS runs out of money. It is not a guarantee anymore. I am 57, which is around at the age where there is talk of pushing back medicare and SS, so I am not taking anything for granted. Snappy

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    Posted by: Mitch
    Date posted: Thu Jan 12 16:54:57 2012
    Message:

    What I find significant, the first example of describing Social Security and Medicare as "entitlements" --- according to Wikipedia's source for the definition of the term --- came last year.

    Ironically, the article cited, http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-18/politics/politics_super-committee_1_spending-cuts-democrats-republicans?_s=PM:POLITICS, doesn't even mention the word.

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  • Thanks, Mitch, for your always insightful responses. Snappy

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    Posted by: Mrs. B. Harris
    Date posted: Thu Jan 12 16:46:52 2012
    Message:

    First, we need to understand that government at all levels, federal, state, local, is a wholly owned entity of big corporations and the rich. Let's just get that out of the way.

    Second, I don't see Medicare or Social Security as an entitlement. An entitlement is something you expect to receive without any contribution. Working Americans have been forced to contribute both to Medicare and Social Security so it is only fair that when the time comes, they get what they are owed. I'm 16 years away from SS and when those checks start coming I will have earned every penny.

    Third, we do need to reduce spending and raise revenue. Everyone who can needs to pay their fair share. Most wealthy people have investments, not income and investments are taxed at a lower rate than income. So you and I will pay a higher percentage of or money in taxes than someone who living off the fortune their grandfather earned. As for reducing spending, this Congress has been hell bent on the pennies going to Planned Parenthood or WIIC. It not enough money to make a difference and hurts people who need the help. One commentator said it's like saying you want to lose weight so you take the parsley off your plate and leave the fried chicken.

    Also, the Republicans are always arguing that you can't tax the job creators, who by the way, are doing a piss poor job at creating jobs. I think actual job creators should be rewarded with a tax break, but it should be in some form of a payment in lieu of taxex (PILOT). You get the tax break AFTER you create the job. You don't get a tax break and we all just have to hope that you'll create a job or two. Any corporation that moves jobs overseas should lose all tax credits. If you put Americans out of work, you should have to pay for it.

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  • Mrs. B H - thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful response. Do you have any suggestions where costs cuts should come from? Snappy
  • That's a tough question. Locally and on a state level, I always say if you want to cut government spending start with the stuff you use. It's easy to tell someone to cut pre-K for poor kids or close the state park you don't use. What exactly are you willing to give up? It's harder with the federal government because the stuff I use is pretty broad. I don't get food stamps or WIIC. I can't really pin point a federally provided service that I can give up. I know there's something, I just can't think of it right now. God knows, I want this country to be safe, but defense could stand a lot of shaving. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I think we spend more than the next 100 smaller countries combined on defense. It may not be 100 but it is some huge number like that. Just think about how much Haliburton made off these wars. Those billions in no-bid contracts are tax dollars. And they moved their headquarters from Texas to the Middle East where the tax laws are friendlier. We could save a fortune closing military bases all over the world. There was a need for a strong military presence in Europe after WWII and during the Cold War. But do we really need them now? I've also seen some suggestions that Social Security and Medicare be based on need. Warren Buffet can get a SS check, but does he really need it? The problem is that for a lot of seniors their wealth is in their homes. You could potentially cut someone off who had a nice house, but not a lot of income. And I'd look at foreign aid. It's wonderful to be a philanthropic nation, but not at the expense of your own people. We also need to do things better. My mother isn't on Medicare but somehow through a former doctor she kept getting letters about being billed for thyroid tests. She doesn't have a thyroid problem and hadn't had any test. Even if she had, Medicare would have never been billed. Apparently Medicare paid the bill and THEN decided to investigate the claim. It was probably some scam from the doctor's office, but if you multiply that times the millions of patients and doctors, Medicare is paying out a whole lot of money to crooks. Overall, though, government's only source of income is taxes. They've lowered taxes on the rich based on the argument that the rich will create jobs. Instead they bought mega mansions. Americans don't want to give up anyting, making cutting spending difficult. So the only real choice is to raise taxes on the people who for the last 40 years have seen their incomes multiply while the rest of us continue to make less money. They didn't get rich on their own and paying a little more in taxes won't hurt them but it will help the nation tremendously. (Mrs. B. H.)
  • I agree with much of what you say. I am not knowledgable about military bases, and while consolidating some bases seems like a money saver, that is a tough one, especially in this economy, because closing a base can really tank the local economy. Medicare and SS based on need - a scaled approach based on what you make sounds very reasonable. Also, most people who turn 65 take Medicare, even if they are working. Why not keep the healthcare on the employer as long as one is employed after 65, until the person offically retires. Medicare fraud is something that really burns me up - I wish it would be aggressively attacked and violating clinics, doctors pay severe penalty including jail time, maybe some people would stop ripping off the taxpayer. There have been some programs such as school lunch which have been delegated to state level, with Federal Standards, which has proved to save a lot of money eliminating the Fed level of administration which oversaw the States. I just wish Congress could pass the things they agree on, instead of using them as hostage to get their special interests. Have a good evening, Mrs. B H. Snappy

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    Posted by: Peridot
    Date posted: Thu Jan 12 15:35:30 2012
    Message:
    Seems like I've been hearing politicians talk about "taxing the rich" for decades.  When they do get taxed the rich always seem to have plenty of loopholes.  I wonder how many people really expect Mr. Obama to say something like, "Thank you, Mr. and Mrs. Gotrocks, for the millions you've contributed to my campaign war chest.  And, by the way, I'm asking Congress to raise your taxes and close all your loopholes."  When it comes right down to it, I don't believe pols of either party are willing to offend their corporate masters, all their bleatings to the contrary.  I'll change my mind when I see hard evidence otherwise.

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  • Thanks, Peridot. You are a respectful and gentle soul, I believe. I agree with everything you said. Snappy

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